http://www.catholic.com/blog/karl-keating/nobody-expects-the-modern-inquisition
89 total members, most of whom are probably not solely dedicated to the task at hand, a task so large as to defy Imagination!
My Lord, as a Protestant---a Quaker for heaven's sake---I find this appalling. Far more resources need to be applied to the suppression of heresy within the Catholic church. As a bonus, when you dig up heretics, you're likely to find a bunch of other miscreants in the same holes, like child molesters, embezzlers, and the like. Lots of people are good for nothing, but almost nobody is BAD for nothing.
Does the Inquisition accept direct donations? Could reactionaries endow, say, a few holy techies and dbas, and the like to make the perceived massive intelligence network and all seeing Eye of the Inquisition closer to a reality? Or at least something we could believe exists and take comfort in rather than something that exists only in the fevered dreams of the far Left?
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A re-energized inquisition would go after the right in the Church first, to prove that it isn't, you know, witch hunting. Then, it would forget to go after the left. We don't really need to speculate on this. This has been the sad history of the Society of St Pius X and numerous other traditionalist organizations in the Church.
I hope for a lazy, corrupt, and underfunded Holy Office, at least for the foreseeable future.
Bill,
The Inquistion hasn't been named that since 1904, when their name was watered down the first time (the second time was in 1965). My suspicion is that names matter for what kinds you attract to that office. Were the pope to rename the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith back, it might as well do a real 'witch hunt'. Theologians who serve Satan with heresy are a lot more dangerous than mere conjurors of cheap tricks.
Lots of the best popes in the past came from the Inquisition, and they often cleaned house in a big way, like Pius V.
I suppose I look at it this way. If you're going to be accused of being a ham-handed, nuanceless witch hunter, you might as well go whole hog and do a hardcore purge. And you're not going to be portrayed as 'fair' no matter what you do, so there's no sense giving a damn how you're perceived by the Cathedral.
The Inquisition was run to flush out crypto-Jews and crypto-Mohammedans. A new Inquisition would need to flush out crypto-Marxists and Liberals, which would pretty much clean out the church.
Torquemada,
Maybe you can get your old job back. You're desperately needed.
I find it disturbing and down right evil for any serious Catholic who loves God to want those Satanic days of evil to return. We should be striving to become more Christ like in word and deed. Jesus himself said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
I suppose that some here would even want a retun of the disgusting Borgia or Medici family type popes. Little wonder the Church has today very little credibilty with all of the cold blooded murders, the child sexual abuse thats been going on for centuries and scandalous clerical hypocracy.
Adding to what I said above Jesus Himself stopped the execution of the woman caught in adultery, why because unlike the hypocritical crowd He had her spiritual welfare in mind. Also the Ten Commandments forbid killing.
At best most of the Popes of the church were Satanists who never knew or wanted to follow the example of Our Lord.
Kevin,
The woman caught in adultery knew she was a sinner and never claimed not to be. The Church has no special difficulty with such, and Jesus was always particularly gracious with them. Those who deny the teaching of the church to defend their particular sins are another matter, and one quite appropriate for the Inquisition to deal with. Those who actively teach falsehood under the aegis of the Church are far worse even than that. Peter and Paul both had very stern words for those types.
Note that the Ten Commandments proscribes murder, not killing. Do not try (read this as pretend) to be holier than Jesus or even the disciples, or for that matter than pretty much the entire communion of the Saints. Jesus fully intends to kick some serious ass on his return (rule the nations with a rod of iron).
I find that killing or murder as you put it to in either circumstance both be absolutly evil. The only time killing would be permisable would be in self defense or war.
The clergy of our Church are so hypocritical and seemingly embroiled in scandal after scandal even here in Australia that they are in no way able to judge anyone on any matter period. To suggest that Priests and Bishops especially the Christian Brothers order and many of them are just "peodophiles" and common trash are able to condemn to death people is outrageous and would never be sanctioned in this Country.
Leave the judging and killing up to Our Heavenly Father, because as Jesus taught not one on Earth is without sin. To promote murder or killing is Satanic and comes not from Our Lord.
Further the Church right to the Pope has sill not clamped down on all the priests who meddle with and rape and abuse children. Infact they seem to be protected and the victims are treated with disdain. And you think these criminals are good people, fit and able to condemn people to death. You are an ignorant fool!
Let Jesus kick "ass" as he at least is without sin, not some peodophile in robes.
Jehu
Oh yes thats right I almost forgot that The clergy in their wisdom and arrogance also condemned to death St Joan of Arc. Do you think that was right and just?
Kevin,
You may or may not be aware that I am not a Catholic. Nevertheless, I don't expect perfection from any institution, even the Church. Looking at things by the numbers, public school teachers are more dangerous to children than priests. I disagree with the notion that priests ought not to be married, but, as I'm not a Catholic, that's not precisely my business. I recognize the Pope as being the leader of his particular army group of the Army of God. So it's his call. Every institution, including the Church, is going to have big time problems with those who value the perpetuation and aggrandizement of the institution over the institution's formal goals. This inhibits cleaning up the church in the manner that the Inquisition used to. Despite the fact that the old-school Inquisition would call me a heretic for being a Protestant, I dearly wish for their return. A church needs an immune system, even though like any immune system, some are going to overreact at times. There's no such thing as perfection on earth, everything will always suck for some people at some times. This is all true until Jesus returns.
Oh for goodness sakes. Can you imagine peodphiles, criminals, Jehovas Witnesses, Mormons or Seventh Day Adventists or even Hari Krishnas and or Muslims with that kind of power?
I thank Our Heavenly Father that I live in a stable Country that is governed by due process and law, not without its faults but it is vastly superiour to Henry the eighths England or Spain under the Satanic inquisition. Do you realise how corrupt that all was. In all of those murders and killings not once was Our lord glorified. Only shame and disgrace came from it. Even Pope John Paul begged forgivness for the crimes of the church. That should tell you something.
I went to a State run Primary and a Sate run High School and never once was abused or ill treated. One friend of mine was sent to a Christian Brothers High School and the things he exerienced are despicable.
Religious people should stick to teaching the Gospel and bringing people to God not running goverments or killing people.
Thankfully here in Australia His Eminence Cardinal Pell and the Anglican Archbishops will never have such power.
I also ment to add that as the church has only tried to cover up abuse scandals and these criminal priests and peodos are still protected, this is evidence that all churches are not fit to have any real power. Which is why our Federal Government has begun an inquiry as to just what has been going on in the churches. Its good to see them squirming on the news at night.
Kevin,
The number of people the Inquisition punished or killed was seriously small fry by modern standards. Hell, Texas executes more people each year than the Inquisition did on average when it was at its height. The deeds of the Inquisition have been heavily exaggerated for propaganda purposes. The same is true of the sexual abuses by the Catholic clergy---by the numbers they're no more prevalent than in ordinary public schools or society at large. The abuse of children is a scourge, but the focus on the Catholics in particular isn't justified by the numbers. It is a Narrative being pushed and you've fallen hard for it. Sexual abuse is really common, far more common than we like to believe, and until very recently, pretty much EVERY organization in our society covered it up, for a variety of motivations, some more unsavory than others.
Even if only one person was murdered by the inquisition it is one too many. Thank God the churches have been stripped of their power. You are speaking like a common killer, you sound like you have more in common with Charles Manson.
We must follow the example of Jesus and not kill.
Kevin,
I categorically reject any logic which has as its logical consequence that we are far more Christian than those who claimed our faith in previous ages. We aren't, the case for the reverse is far easier to support. A state IS force. Force means weapons and cages. Paul and Peter both say such are necessary and approved by God. Sometimes they'll be misused or used against the wrong people. That's life. Not having them used at all generally results in worse consequences. I'd rather have the Inquisition than not have it, even knowing that they're likely to exceed their mandate eventually and in some circumstances. Notice that Spain was spared the awful bloodletting that MY spiritual forebears (Protestants) invoked (the 30 years war). Think that sparing was purely a coincidence?
The inquisition will not come back this is just pie in the sky foolishness. Its a bit like hoping that the easter bunny is real!
It is un Christian and nothing more than just plain Satanic debauchery that pretty much only twerps in the St Pius X movement believe in. Lets face it they are prized weirdos.
Whats next polygamy, slavery, killing someone for lighting a fire on the Sabbath.
Further to what I said if the inquisition were to return, as a heretic you would be tortured, raped and burt at the stake! Think about that. Also the St Pius X heretics would have to meet the same fate.
Sorry for the stuffed up spelling!
You are terribly wrong. The inquisition will never return. The Church has changed for the better. And despite its manifold sins and faults it is becomming more Christ like.
You need to go and read what Pope John Paul II said regarding this evil and dark period of church history.
Further Our Heavenly Father Himself spoke to the prophet Hosea and said ( Hosea 6:6 )"I desire mercy not sacrifice and acknowledgment of God rather than sacrifice.
To defy this or teach any thing else is pure heresy and unmittigated evil. I as a Catholic know and accept this.
Kevin,
If you have a police force, it will have abuses. These have to be weighed against the alternatives. Most of the time it is worthwhile to have a police force. Ditto an immune system. An inquisition is an immune system. Your church, the Catholic one, has been without an immune system for a long time now. Any honest observer can see the result.
Recent popes have apologized for the abuses of their immune system, which like any immune system will occasionally attack the wrong targets. Apologizing when you make a mistake is appropriate. Removing the immune system or making it so permissive that it provides no defense against real threats is not. Your denomination has a huge heresy problem within it. Mine has a monumental one. You still have the vestiges of an immune system (the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith). Mine has none. Your denomination suffers from the problems of a centralized authority. Mine suffers from the lack of one.
I'm sorry that I can't accept your claim that your church is becoming more Christ-like. I could maybe accept the claim that you're becoming less Christ-like at a slower rate than most Protestant denominations.
What Church do you belong to?
Kevin,
I've said quite a few times on this blog that I'm officially an Evangelical Quaker. That makes me a protestant. I kid you not when I declare that while your denomination has a grave heresy problem, that mine has a monumental one. I've removed your more intemperate remarks.
Thank you that you have stated what church you belong to, I am sorry I have not read all your blog.
I always thought that Quakers like the Amish folk were very kindly, loving and genuinely good people. Yet what you are putting forward as truth is plainly unscriptural and even the last three Popes condemn. Once again I plead with you tio read Hosea 6:6 and re think what you believe.
We are all human, but as we learn more and more from the scriptures we also learn more about the nature of God and his plans for us. Our Heavenly Father has given us all free will and an ability to descern right from wrong. Also the choice to either love Him or choose to follow evil.
Gods will should and must be surpreem for all Christians. Even Pope Benedict VI told all Catholics that we should start reading our Bibles. The old ignorant and criminal church has gone for good and will not return.
Our Holy Father is telling us to read the scriptures which is a major change from the times where even owning a Bible could see one burnt at the stake.
Read Hosea 6:6 and take those words to heart, this is God speaking to us.
I would also encourage you to read of how the inquisition treated so shamefully two quaker women. Who both endured the most despicable and Satanic pain.
Read the story of Sarah Cheevers and Catherine Evans, two Quaker women and try to turn your brain on! What you say has to and must be be backed up by scripture not wierdo and criminal fantasies.
Kevin,
The context of Hosea 6 is God's call for the Israelites to repent, something they occasionally did highly imperfectly. He is warning them that their sacrifices (of animals, flour, etc under the sacrificial system) did not please him as their hearts were not in it. Samuel expresses a similar sentiment (God desires obedience moreso than sacrifices) from God.
Put in modern terms, this would be God saying that your tithes (or worse yet, your driving of a Prius) do not relieve you of the obligation to obey.
2 Peter 2 speaks to just how serious a crime heresy is, and just how important the task of the Holy Inquisition was, and still is should the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith decide to embrace it. The failure to vigorously fight against heresy is akin to letting malefactors put fake covers over snares and pits that they have dug for the unwary. Justice must never become separated from mercy, for mercy without justice becomes unmerciful.
Obviously you've not met many Quakers, especially Evangelical ones. Being anti-most wars, although decidedly not anti-war, I'm probably among the more peaceable of them.
I'd encourage you to read about the actual history of the Inquisition. You'll find that its doings are par for the course for nearly any law enforcement organization that could operate at that time. In fact, you'll find they were far more merciful and professional. You've got a serious baseline problem. Consider this, let's say there are 2 major education providers in a country. In one, 3% of the children are molested prior to graduation. In the other, that number is 1%. Obviously both states of affairs suck, but is there a particular reason to more aggressively excoriate the second? Or to spotlight nearly every case in the second while never connecting the dots on the cases in the first?
When you actually look at the details of the supposed 'crimes of the Catholic church', you'll find that when you apply a proper baseline, they're really blown all out of proportion. If an outsider from a tradition that was pretty hostile to Catholicism can see this (although in fairness, Quakers had more beefs with the Church of England), why can't you?
The word of Our Heavenly Father are still pertinent and relevant to us today. The principals of mercy, forgivness and love remain. You are not above God, or "without sin".
Why would you a heretic and a Quaker want Satanism to return. You would be amonst the first victims.
Of course I'm not without sin. Never made that claim, nor will I ever in this life. Inquire again on Jesus' return and the resurrection of the dead.
Like most members of my denomination, you forget something. God is a Loving God, but He is also a Holy and Just God. Were the Inquisition to restart tomorrow, I'm sure they would not begin by wantonly abusing innocent people. But they would inevitably engage in some excesses. Were you to start a huge educational network, eventually there would be sexual abuses in it. If you were lucky, that level would be considerably less than that in the society at large. Suppressing heresy and thereby protecting the innocent and educating the masses are both noble goals, and in keeping with what our Lord did while He was on Earth, and in keeping with the tradition of the Faith in general. The fact that there's going to be some undesired baggage is just part and parcel of living on a Fallen world, or on the 'Silent Planet' as CS Lewis would put it. Certainly you do your best to minimize it, but you don't let that brute fact, that anything you do will involve fallen persons, stop you from doing God's work.
Again I would remind you that you would one of the first victims, you woul be forced to recant your heresies and be tourtured mercilessly by deviant criminals.
Kevin,
That's a very slim possibility, but I concede a real one. My guess though is it's much more likely to happen at the hands of a secular authority, just as it was way more likely to happen back in the heyday. You've got this vision of the Inquisition as an organization straight out of 1984, or perhaps Stalin's USSR. The existence of a police force necessarily creates the existence of abuses. All things considered, it's better to have one than not to have one though. Mere niceness, which I perceive you want to claim as a banner, takes no notice of those who suffer greatly when mercy separates from justice, for instance the hordes of fatherless children who are thus because the Church has failed to suppress heretical teachings, even within itself, about marriage and the theology of the body. For God's sake we can't even manage a unified front against wholesale infanticide...oh...I mean, abortion. This is the fruit of the lack of a muscular Inquisition. Empty pews in Europe, seminaries teaching heresy, and mountains of infants sacrificed not even to Molech, but mere convenience.
At last you admit that you are a heretic and I assure you that if you got your way you and all heretics would be victims of an unspeakable crime. Why dont you get up in one of your Quaker meetings and tell your congregation just what you believe and see their reaction.
Kevin,
I do not admit I am a heretic. I do admit that as a Protestant that some members of the historical Inquisition would consider me one. If you know the actual definition of heresy, you'd know that it is very very difficult for someone to admit that they are a heretic, because heresy pretty much by definition requires the refusal to be corrected by orthodox teaching. Do you confess that it is possible that your local police charge you with a crime that you are innocent of?
Actually the congregation that I am a member of is quite aware of my beliefs. My beliefs are pretty typical of most Christians prior to 1960 or so. I'd suggest reading my Sola Scriptura or Solo Scriptura post from a ways back if you want more detail.
Most of us would prefer a Catholic church that was somewhat hostile to us but was substantively ALIVE to the status quo. We'd rather turn the other cheek when you call us heretics with less than full accuracy than see your ship go down and your denomination become a less glorified Kiwanis organization. Even the Catholic church's worst historical excesses in the scheme of things weren't so bad, especially viewed from a perspective that has seen the 20th century. Probably the worst was the pervasive financial corruption epitomized by the wholesale sale of indulgences immediately prior to the Reformation, and that's a dead letter now.
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and agressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
YOU ARE A CHILD OF THE UNIVERSE, NO LESS THAN THE TREES OR THE STARS YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE, AND WEATHER OR NOT IT IS CLEAR TO YOU, NO DOUBT THE UNIVERSE IS UNFOLDING AS IT SHOULD!
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your buisiness affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;and every where life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially,do not feign affection. Neither be critcal about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden missfortune. But do not disstress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and lonliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams it is still a beautiful world. Be carefull strive to be happy.
The Desiderata
Max Ehrmann 1927. ( shortened slightly )
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